Resistance as Spiritual Practice: Carolyn Baker Interview (Safe Spiritual Spaces Interview Series)
Another installment in a series about what makes a safe/healthy spiritual space
Welcome back to another installment in the Safe Spiritual Spaces Interview Series, where we hear from writers, artists, therapists, clergy, practitioners, and other voices who do work at the intersections of spirituality, creativity, and justice. For each post in this series, I’ll ask our guests the same four questions, and they will share from their wisdom, experience, and research.
Today, we welcome Carolyn Baker, author of Confronting Christofascism.
BEFORE WE BEGIN: If you’re not familiar with the term Christofascism, it’s “the blending of authoritarianism and oneself’s interpretation and practice of evangelical Christianity.” As a Christian myself, I (Kandi Zeller) consider Christofascism to be a form of idolatry: it gets in the way of truly loving God and neighbor (Matthew 22:38-40). That’s why I am so excited to have Carolyn featured here today—because of her extensive justice work in resisting Christofascism and creating safe spiritual spaces for all.
Tell us a little about your work…
For the past 16 years I have been writing and researching the global crisis—climate chaos, the demise of democracy, and the rise of Christofascism. I will continue to do so as long as I am able. My website is www.carolynbaker.net, and I publish a subscription-based Daily News Digest 6 days a week. On Sundays, I publish the Sun-Day Post which offers an article or video of inspiration in relation to our global predicament.
In your experience and/or research, what are some of the things that make a spiritual space safe?
A spiritual space must offer safety by being fully present with people and listening to them. There must be no judgment, no proselytizing, no racism, sexism, homophobia, or gender bias. It must be assumed that every person is precious, whole, and infinitely valuable and that they have a right to be alive and occupy any spiritual space.
What advice would you give to someone looking for a safe spiritual space after religious trauma?
Their first priority is investigating the space and who is holding it. Do your homework. Ask questions. Don’t assume anything. Check in with yourself and your body. Do you feel safe around the space-holder? Check out how they present themselves—their body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, eye contact. Are they open to questions? Are they grounded? For example, do you feel rushed around them, or do you feel like there is enough time and space for you? How do you feel about the others in the group? You don’t have to like them, but do you feel safe with them? Is this group welcoming and affirming of who you are? Your gender, your race, your sexual orientation? Has the space-holder established firm boundaries with the group? Do you feel comfortable holding your boundaries in the group and with the space-holder?
Anything else you’d like to share about this topic or your current projects?
In 2021 I published Confronting Christofascism: Healing The Evangelical Wound. This book is part memoir in which I share my upbringing, as in an evangelical family knowing that I was gay and later being kicked out of a bible college for being gay. It is also an exposé of evangelical Christianity, its origins, its history, and its mission in current time to supplant democracy around the world with its authoritarian religion.
Currently, a friend of mine who grew up in evangelicalism and who was a “preacher’s kid” and I are exploring the possibility of creating a podcast for survivors of religious trauma. We are considering the name Holy Heretics for our podcast. Our intention is to create a safe space in that podcast for our listeners.
///
Please join me in thanking Carolyn for her words and wisdom. And you should definitely go check out her book and the other resources she shared today. For even more information about Christofascism, I also highly recommend this conversation with Carolyn Baker and D.L. Mayfield.
May we all resist injustice and exclusion in whatever spaces we inhabit!
In Wonder,
Kandi Zeller (she/her)
Thank you, Carolyn!
Wow, the advice about checking in with your body is so valuable. And how she draws that out with her thread of questions. The last two churches I attended, I left when I physically couldn’t bring myself to going back—I didn’t have a list of reasons or critiques, just wordless terror. I really hadn’t learned to listen to my body, and I wonder what my experience would have been like if I had been able to tune into its early notes of danger, rather than letting it build to panic.